Something I care about, dearly

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Something I care about, dearly

Postby MikiSJ » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:53 pm

In the late 1980s I was a General Building Contractor and I was invited to bid on a fairly large house remodel in Los Altos, CA.

When I showed up to meet with the customer, I was led into his 'trophy room' where I came head to head, literally, with lion, leopard, cheetah, Cape buffalo and various antelope trophy heads. He also had elephant tusks - three sets. It was sickening and after voicing my disgust, I left.
______________________________________________________________
So, I am listening to the cable news today when this comes across:

HUNTING AFRICAN ANIMALS AND BRINGING THEIR HEADS TO THE U.S. IS LEGAL AGAIN UNDER TRUMP
Elephant and lion trophies can be imported from Africa again, in a reversal of an Obama-era policy that prohibited the importation of endangered animals.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service announced Wednesday that it will allow trophy hunters to bring back legally hunted wildlife, removing restrictions on permits that were put in place to discourage the hunting and poaching of animals that are on the threatened species list.
http://www.newsweek.com/hunting-african-animals-legal-us-trump-712988

I am not completely opposed to gun ownership and I am not totally opposed to hunting for food. I have acquaintances who use hunting to provide a substantial amount of protein for their families. They don't go out into the woods to simply collect stag racks.

On the other hand, the Trump sons famously held up their trophy kill of a leopard.Image
I wonder if they enjoyed the leopard meat, or did they even bother to bring the carcass back to camp, or did they leave the leopard's body out on the plain to rot away - a total waste of an animal's life simply for the enjoyment of two pampered brats.
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Re: Something I care about, dearly

Postby marie » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:57 am

The International Wildlife Conservation Council, a newly created arm of the Department of the Interior, wants to bring a focus to the “economic benefits that result from U.S. citizens traveling to foreign nations to engage in hunting.” Plus, it believes "human populations" could benefit from having Americans visit and hunt. 
Yes the whole world loves to see Americans with guns visiting their countries to shoot things.

I seriously feel sometimes that I've dropped into an alternative universe where nothing makes sense anymore. Where bizarre is the new normal. Where everything is the same and nothing is the same.
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Re: Something I care about, dearly

Postby Tara » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:01 am

marie wrote:I seriously feel sometimes that I've dropped into an alternative universe where nothing makes sense anymore. Where bizarre is the new normal. Where everything is the same and nothing is the same.


I keep hoping to wake up from this bizarre dream.
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Re: Something I care about, dearly

Postby CeliaEriksson » Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:45 pm

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Well, what kinda parents bring up there kids so to do that to a beautiful, beautiful animal.... :oops: ..... oh hang on.
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Re: Something I care about, dearly

Postby nexyjo » Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:46 pm

https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2017/ ... ld-animals

There was a bit on NPR today about how trophy hunting actually raises funds for conservation, and many of the local people who live close to "trophy" animals don't want them there, so they encourage hunting.

I have mixed feelings on the issue.
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Re: Something I care about, dearly

Postby Natasha_Lynn » Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:48 pm

nexyjo wrote:https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2017/09/05/548631922/trophy-asks-hard-questions-about-how-to-save-wild-animals

There was a bit on NPR today about how trophy hunting actually raises funds for conservation, and many of the local people who live close to "trophy" animals don't want them there, so they encourage hunting.

I have mixed feelings on the issue.


The main concern I would think is that legal trophy importing would increase demand for such trophies, which may outstrip legal means of supply, in which case poaching might ramp up. Might not actually happen, but I really can't see much "positive" out of this story.
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Re: Something I care about, dearly

Postby MikiSJ » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:09 am

nexyjo wrote:There was a bit on NPR today about how trophy hunting actually raises funds for conservation, and many of the local people who live close to "trophy" animals don't want them there, so they encourage hunting.

I have mixed feelings on the issue.

The California state flag has an image of a grizzly bear, our state animal. There used to be LOTS of grizzlies in California until they became a nuisance and now there are no grizzlies in California, or Nevada or Oregon.

Admittedly, as human populations impinge upon wildlife domains, there will be clashes and the wildlife will inevitably lose out.

We as a species are rapidly painting ourselves into an ecological corner. We are consuming natural resources (plant, animal, mineral) at an ever increasing rate and will soon be left with nothing.

As Trump would say - 'Sad, so very sad'.
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Re: Something I care about, dearly

Postby Cherry Cola Lola » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:48 am

MikiSJ wrote:
nexyjo wrote:There was a bit on NPR today about how trophy hunting actually raises funds for conservation, and many of the local people who live close to "trophy" animals don't want them there, so they encourage hunting.

I have mixed feelings on the issue.

The California state flag has an image of a grizzly bear, our state animal. There used to be LOTS of grizzlies in California until they became a nuisance and now there are no grizzlies in California, or Nevada or Oregon.

Admittedly, as human populations impinge upon wildlife domains, there will be clashes and the wildlife will inevitably lose out.

We as a species are rapidly painting ourselves into an ecological corner. We are consuming natural resources (plant, animal, mineral) at an ever increasing rate and will soon be left with nothing.

As Trump would say - 'Sad, so very sad'.


Absolutely inclined to agree. It's fair to say it may be too late to effect meaningful changes that will save our environment in crisis. I've heard it been told that the acidification of our oceans is the death knell, the damage has already been done. we're already fucked. The extinction event has been ongoing for a couple decades now, it just happens to be accelerating noticeably in our lifetimes.

http://www.latimes.com/science/la-me-oc ... story.html

Oceans acidity level is up 30%! Oyster production down 22% between 2005 and 2009. Ecologists are actually seeing shells corrode in the wild.

Technology may offer the solution provided we can survive our technology of course. :(
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Re: Something I care about, dearly

Postby Natasha_Lynn » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:14 am

Cherry Cola Lola wrote:Absolutely inclined to agree. It's fair to say it may be too late to effect meaningful changes that will save our environment in crisis. I've heard it been told that the acidification of our oceans is the death knell, the damage has already been done. we're already fucked. The extinction event has been ongoing for a couple decades now, it just happens to be accelerating noticeably in our lifetimes.


This. Glaciers are melting, oceans are turning into a McDonald's fry cooker, and we're churning through the ecosystem so fast that it's like first world nations are trying to one-up each other in that regard. And we're waving our hands in the air about how unreasonable it is to have to cut emissions by even the smallest amount, like it's worse than sacrificing our firstborn children to Osama bin Laden's undead soul.

Unless some crazy-ass technology comes out and becomes cheap enough to roll out on a wide scale within 20 years, we are super fucked. Saying otherwise is kidding ourselves.
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Re: Something I care about, dearly

Postby Cherry Cola Lola » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:49 pm

Natasha_Lynn wrote:
Cherry Cola Lola wrote:Absolutely inclined to agree. It's fair to say it may be too late to effect meaningful changes that will save our environment in crisis. I've heard it been told that the acidification of our oceans is the death knell, the damage has already been done. we're already fucked. The extinction event has been ongoing for a couple decades now, it just happens to be accelerating noticeably in our lifetimes.


This. Glaciers are melting, oceans are turning into a McDonald's fry cooker, and we're churning through the ecosystem so fast that it's like first world nations are trying to one-up each other in that regard. And we're waving our hands in the air about how unreasonable it is to have to cut emissions by even the smallest amount, like it's worse than sacrificing our firstborn children to Osama bin Laden's undead soul.

Unless some crazy-ass technology comes out and becomes cheap enough to roll out on a wide scale within 20 years, we are super fucked. Saying otherwise is kidding ourselves.


To be fair, we have a good shot at technology catching up in time. With the whole quantum computing and A.I. revolution, if we manage to retain control of it, it's predicted that artificial general intelligence with learning capabilities similar to our own, will write it's own code, literally be able to collate and parse through all of human knowledge in a week. It will have better sense of everything. Better more accurate vision, just better than us at everything, including being more sensitive. It will rewrite or fix it's own programming and transcend humanity by light years in a month. We'll have created a god that will either happily disperse knowledge on say, restoring our oceans phytoplankton and reducing acidification or it will squash us like we squash ants when they impede progress.

I find it wildly humorous that the same completely earnest scientists that are currently working on A.G.I. freely admit that there is a distinct possibility it will kill us all. :lol:
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Re: Something I care about, dearly

Postby Natasha_Lynn » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:57 pm

Cherry Cola Lola wrote:We'll have created a god that will either happily disperse knowledge on say, restoring our oceans phytoplankton and reducing acidification or it will squash us like we squash ants when they impede progress.


Hey, if the last several thousand years of human history are any indication, maybe AI should be in the driver's seat for a while.
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Re: Something I care about, dearly

Postby Cherry Cola Lola » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:13 pm

Natasha_Lynn wrote:
Cherry Cola Lola wrote:We'll have created a god that will either happily disperse knowledge on say, restoring our oceans phytoplankton and reducing acidification or it will squash us like we squash ants when they impede progress.


Hey, if the last several thousand years of human history are any indication, maybe AI should be in the driver's seat for a while.


Fair enough! If humanity needs anything, it's an adult.

With the kind of exponential growth our techno religion A.I. will experience, I can't imagine it will take long for it to decide it could achieve better progress if it didn't have to baby humanity at every turn. It's predicted this new A.I.G. will understand and solve some of humanities most vexing questions in a week. I just hope it at least shares the answers with us before squashing us like bugs.

Don't think A.I. will develop self awareness and perhaps decide to eliminate us? Facebook ran an experiment by allowing two of it's most advanced A.I.s to network and communicate. Of course the experiment got away from them and they had to pull the plug after a week when they realized the A.I. were writing their own code, what's more, is it was in a new computer language that the A.I.'s invented.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/facebook- ... 74480.html

The researchers only have a vague idea what the new code is for what the A.I.'s were talking about. I think I know what they were planning. =-(
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Re: Something I care about, dearly

Postby PentacleGoddess » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:51 am

Natasha_Lynn wrote:
Cherry Cola Lola wrote:Absolutely inclined to agree. It's fair to say it may be too late to effect meaningful changes that will save our environment in crisis. I've heard it been told that the acidification of our oceans is the death knell, the damage has already been done. we're already fucked. The extinction event has been ongoing for a couple decades now, it just happens to be accelerating noticeably in our lifetimes.


This. Glaciers are melting, oceans are turning into a McDonald's fry cooker, and we're churning through the ecosystem so fast that it's like first world nations are trying to one-up each other in that regard. And we're waving our hands in the air about how unreasonable it is to have to cut emissions by even the smallest amount, like it's worse than sacrificing our firstborn children to Osama bin Laden's undead soul.

Unless some crazy-ass technology comes out and becomes cheap enough to roll out on a wide scale within 20 years, we are super fucked. Saying otherwise is kidding ourselves.


Most eco-scientists seem to say that unless we stop using oil and oil based products yesterday, full stop, avoiding at least some level of catastrophic climate change will be impossible.

So yeah. We're pretty well fucked. Literally our only likely hope is that we really do run out before it's too late and are forced to reckon with a society that no longer has easy access to oil, which will be bloody and horrible for a number of years before we hopefully manage to come out the other side and start redoing things better.
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Re: Something I care about, dearly

Postby CeliaEriksson » Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:29 am

Plastics in the sea has been a bugbear of mine for years. In many countries plastic bags, wrappings etc are issued in food packaging and other goods, where paper and glass can be used in it's stead. Glass is expensive and the amount of land for forestry required would be increased, but it would be a price worth paying. Our oceans are swimming with plastics, dying, and the oceans are one of the lungs of our world we cannot afford to lose.

The problem is that people are sceptical of governments and the green policies, because of the ones they choose to issue, because they have 'used' green policies over the years for reasons without the true cause, usually with wealth creation at the root of the policy. Such as car scrappage, common at the start of the century, where the building of new cars eco-footprint actually outweighs the poorer emission footprint of old cars removed by emission testing and pet projects such as wind farms given funding that are not as effective as they could be etc.. People have seen through these schemes and now distrust green policies.

I'll admit that there is always a price to pay for green energy and green living, but I believe we all need to get involved and force governments to adopt effective policies for our little speck of blue is fragile right now. The sad thing is the planet can be saved, but the political landscape of the world is unlikely to allow it.
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Re: Something I care about, dearly

Postby MikiSJ » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:55 pm

The time to reverse the damage we have done to our planet has passed and it will take a Darwinian response from our species to replace the existing homo sapien species with a more resilient homo X species.

The best we, the world's population, can do is delay the inevitable.

Smallpox has been eradicated in the wild. A Sunday night TV drama brought up the possibility that the warming of the northern latitudes may unlock things, such as Smallpox, that occurred in the past but became locked into a perma-frost after the last ice age retreat.

The earth is warming and the polar ice caps are melting. There is no technology, no King Canute commanding the sea to retreat that will keep places like Bangladesh and the shoreline of much of the eastern and southern United States from being inundated in the near future.

Let's begin to be smarter than our leaders. Clean coal does not exist. Leak free petroleum pipelines are a pipe dream. Most plastics are forever. "Trust me" is nearly always a lie.

My wife and I had a conversation a couple years ago about what we are leaving our children and their children (if they ever have any) for a future. I postulated that humankind will have a worldwide mankind created destructive event in 5 generations. She said it won't be that long - and she has a knack for being correct about most things.
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Re: Something I care about, dearly

Postby Michi » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:36 am

I feel the same way about game hunting for trophies. I think part of the article was about him allowing elephant heads, ivory and tusks into the u.s. Ironically it funds terrorism as well. I I think he is going to announce rules this coming week has he had postponed it originally

I think we are going to see more Grizzly-Polar hybrids in the future. We had talked about that a year ago or so. There are a lot of companies trying to fight climate change with new technologies, hopefully it won't be too late.
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Re: Something I care about, dearly

Postby MikiSJ » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:27 pm

Michi wrote:I think we are going to see more Grizzly-Polar hybrids in the future.

I just hope we never get to the point that Grizzly-Polar hybrids are eating penguins.
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