a chilling tale of controlling christians

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a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby Demon » Wed May 10, 2017 11:20 am

I was at church one day and they start talking about a 50 year old virgin. I started listening and discerned that it was a female they were talking about. What they said about her was bone-chilling. They were saying that she deserved to be alone and a virgin because she desired a man more than she desired jesus. They said she needs to give her life to Jesus and not try to get a man.

Now, a girl had recently dumped me about a week earlier, so I was in my hateful mode towards women at that time. But even I had compassion and felt sorry for that woman. The women talking about her deeply creeped me out and gave me bad vibes. I said how dare those hypocrits, they all are married and have men, but how dare they say that woman is not allowed to have a man. it was horrifying like some kind of creepy religious cult in a movie. after that day on i stopped going to church. christians scare me.
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby mitzidog » Wed May 10, 2017 4:07 pm

Any belief that stops you from thinking for yourself is one not worth having.
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby Kidagakash » Wed May 10, 2017 7:29 pm

The church environment I was raised in concludes that one must give over their entire lives to God and that everything else is secondary. I do not see that as feasible. I believe that if there is a God they wouldn't have the entire universe exist solely to glorify them. That feels like a pointless endeavor. I prefer to think that a creator would want us to aspire to enrich life in general. To encourage love, and happiness, and the betterment of the environment one exists in. Seriously, if the whole point of existence is to worship a deity, what is the point of existence at all? I know a lot of super mega ultra christian people who devote most of their lives to the religion. They listen exclusively to christian music, their social activities are all faith based, and their primary life goal seems to be to promote this lifestyle to others. While I do admire the endearing qualities that are instilled in many of them, I can not help but think that it is all overkill and a bit creepy. If I seem anti-religion, I am not. I have just had a lot of bad experiences with religious organizations
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby mitzidog » Thu May 11, 2017 9:54 am

I am unashamedly anti religion for the reasons previously stated, but am fully behind the idea of a personal faith in something.

Any organisation that suggests that there is only one set of responses to the wonder of finding oneself alive in this astonishing universe for all times for all people is more about social control than faith.

This is not to say that individuals that have a faith in something more than themselves from their loved ones right up to the whole Universe, or even something beyond are wrong - just that if they take that faith lock stock and barrel off the shelf and don't question it, I would argue it is conformity rather than faith.

We are born as creative, wonderful, inquisitive, sensual creatures. Stopping us exploring ourselves, our environment and each other, so long as consensual, is to deny part of our humanity. That is my problem with religion, it dehumanises.

Many religious individuals show great humanity, compassion, love to their fellow humans. Many with no religion are utter [insert expletive of your choice]s. That's because people are just people at the end of the day.

Religion itself and the tight control it seeks to exercise over humans who yearn to be free is cruel and for some reason morbidly fascinated with what is in your pants and what you do with it. Can't be doing with it.
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby MorganWoolf » Thu May 11, 2017 2:57 pm

Must resist urge to go on full-blown anti-YHWH rant....rawr....

*Sigh* It's sad, but I'm not surprised.

I think the possiblity that a one grand supersoul of the universe that could be called "God" exists, but I seriously doubt it's YHWH. For having supposedly created humans (and women) he really seems to hate humans (and especially women).
I think YHWH is a desert war-god who got cocky and now wants everyone to worship him as the one supreme being. He has seriously twisted so many good teachings and now his followers are lost in this quagmire of hate.

I need to stop before I start going off about him being the "god who stole the throne of Ra"...and then you'll all think I'm nuts.
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby marie » Tue May 16, 2017 7:24 am

Demon just makes stuff up all the time. I mean honestly, I don't know how anyone could have so many experiences, not least all bad experiences with other people.

But the point is real, religion for the most part is a really negative experience. Not belief in a God, there are no Gods but if it helps you get through the day and your life then who am I to tell you you're wrong.

But no one can reasonably look at religion, it's history and the behaviour of religious people and say. 'It's a good thing.' Religion allows you to hate without conscience, kill without remorse and judge without tolerance. Most religions are oppressive to their own members and seek to oppress non members all in the name of the particular God they invented.

God is a human invention and has all the failings we humans suffer from.
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby MorganWoolf » Tue May 16, 2017 10:12 am

This makes me want to go into a philosophical discussion of what a "god" truly is and the nature of consciousness, and I'm going to do it because I rarely get the opportunity. So, brace yourselves! This is happening. (And this isn't me trying to sell any religious idea, so much as it is me vomiting philosophy and offering an alternative view of the universe for anyone who is interested in this kind of stuff...and a bit of a history/science lesson as well...and my defense of religion). So, disclaimers over, here goes!

Depending on your definition of "god" the sun would be a god. If the sun ceased to exist, so would we and there's nothing we could do about it.
Also, how does one measure consciousness? For animals it does seem to require a brain, however plants react to their environment as well. They have a chemical communication system. What is to say that a chemical communication system doesn't offer a sort of consciousness? And if that is so then how can you define the existence of thought in anything if it doesn't have to be bio-electrical?
If we do have souls than what makes a soul a "god"? Could being a "god" be merely a title like how we give humans titles based on achievements such as Ph.D?
And just as we give humans a title and offer them respect due to their achievements, so too we offer the title of "god" to an entity that has achievement or power, and offer respect thusly.
In all the religions I have studied, no god has inspired more death in his name than YHWH, also known as the god of Abraham, who is the god of the Christians, the Jews, and Islam.
Before YHWH gods were called upon to assist in wartime, they did not demand it. (I will not go into the complexities of MezoAmerican culture. That's a different topic, won't even touch it). Even Rome proceeded to conquest for the glory of the nation, and the pax romana allowed people to worship and believe as they wished so long as they also honored the gods of Rome, because they were now part of that country.
In ancient times it was well understood by most pagan cultures that gods belonged to a people, culture, and sometimes location. The different religions would look at each other and see that oftentimes they were worshiping the same entity (such as the sun) so when an individual of one culture (let's say Sumeria) entered another country (let's say Egypt), it was considered customary to honor the gods of that country (in this case, Egypt). To worship another god in its home country/culture was not considered bad, but proper.
They would even trade gods sometimes if they didn't have one that could help them such as in the Egyptian story of the Princess of Bekhten.

Hatred, prejudice, and war exist even in cultures that have no god worshiping religion. I'd like to bring attention to communist nations that oppress religion and the problems between China and Tibet. Even in tribes where there is no god or gods central to their spirituality there is still prejudice and warfare.

In studying ancient pagan religions and traditions I see this commonality of finding beauty and wonder in the life and world around us. A lot of old festivals existed just to appreciate life. In ancient Egypt, festivals dedicated to god were filled with food, drink, and wild revelry. At one point in history the Egyptians would pass a little coffin with a dead figure in it to remind everyone to live it up now, because you never know when you'll die. Now is your time to live!
Most rituals and traditions existed to be grateful for things we take for granted. To worship the sun was probably originally a practice to simply be thankful for it. To be thankful for the river and the wind and all the things they offered that we couldn't live without.

And if science cannot measure consciousness (and I don't mean "awakeness" but the fundamental being of thought and feeling) then the existence of a soul is for now, scientifically inconclusive.

Scientifically (I'd like to point out I work at a museum and I have an education) we work with what is observable, but in science there are no "truths". This was drilled into be by essentially every professor on the first day of every science class I took. Most of what science offers are hypothesis, which require rigorous testing to be theories, but even theories are not considered fact or truth. Theories have been changed and altered including things you would expect to be solid such as gravity. Beyond a theory is a law, but even laws have been found to need rethinking or altering. Laws have been found to break inexplicably.

Physicists have encountered gravitational anomalies and astro-physicicsts are clamoring to find the Theory of Everything which is still elusive because our theories on the universe don't support each other. The biggest problem being gravity.

Quantum physics has allowed us to break out of the constraints that traditional physics has left us in and it does indeed allow room for the existence of things such as a soul.

It has been noted by quantum physicists that observation affects reality and can affect the results of an experiment. This is an article describing an experiment working on this hypothesis:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1 ... 055013.htm

You will note in the article that even an electronic, non-human observer affected the experiment, though significantly less than an actual human. Why would this be? What does observation have to do with the way particles and waves behave and what does that mean about the nature of reality? Is reality a construct existing and working based on the expectations of the billions of "observers" which are the living things that exist on this planet? If observing an electron causes it to behave as a wave then why does this mechanic of the universe exist? What counts as an "observer" and why? Does observation require consciousness, and if so what does that say about the non-human, electronic observer?

It may be true that religions have been used as excuses for atrocities, but humans will always find an excuse to push their agendas and hatred. And to completely discount the existence of a soul or of a "god" (because the word "god" can mean an infinite amount of things depending on the individual you ask) is scientifically inappropriate. It is said, "lack of evidence is not evidence in itself".

The most important thing for humanity to do is to live with an open mind. We are imperfect humans and we are bound to make mistakes.

I would like to point out that many of the greatest stories that we have were originally myths instigated by religions. Even Hamlet is a re-telling of the Egyptian Osirian cycle (Yes, Shakespear plagerized :P) Many forms of art and architecture developed because of a need to give reverence to gods or ancestors. Many of our earliest civilizations were city-states that grew around centers of worship. Religion was once something that brought people together and had us understand the beauty and importance of everything around us, including ourselves. Originally, most religions had a central Goddess (she went by many names over the ages: Inana, Astarte, Ishtar, Ashtoreth...) and she represented the beauty and strength of femininity and womanhood.
By studying this Goddess when I was growing up, I was able to understand what being a woman really meant. I wan able to understand my inner female strength.

Perhaps Inana is just the female strength all women have, and if so, can you say that isn't real or worth admiring? If that is real, then Inana is real. If Inana is real, then I offer her my love, because she is incredible and worth worship. And If I say she is incredible and worth worship, then I mean all women are incredible and worth worship. That was the true nature of religion and the Gods.

But religion has tragically been warped since then.

Whatever the truth about reality and spirit is, we will never fully know it, because we are limited humans. I get the feeling that in the expanse of the multi-verse (scientifically speaking now) we will find that our current views of reality and existence will shatter, just as humanities view of existence was drastically altered when we learned the earth revolved around the sun, and the universe was far bigger than we expected.

And that's my philosophical statement. Take it how you will. The end.
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby Emma2Sprt » Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:23 pm

Morgan, you have some really great points here.

However, as a possibility that could help explain a few things. Try substituting something like Powerful Ruler or something like that from an advanced culture or civilization; or any other title; you can think of for the word "god" in all of the myths out there.

Then religion then looks more like different cultures that are warring with everyone around them for supremacy. You can then begin to see Religion as nothing more than specific groups clamoring to dominate those around them they deem weak or alien to them. Even for something that can be seen as silly, like ideology; in spite of any and all similarities they may have.

I have observed around me that no matter where you go, you will eventually encounter that political dynamic that has a tenancy to corrupt that which began as a beautiful thing that was a form of respect toward others within just about any group.

Case in point, just take a cursory glance at this countries current "Leadership" and current events stemming from said "Leadership".

Personally, I'm not so sure that Religion is nothing more than a "group" that seeks to subvert free will and prey on the weak minded for nothing more than personal gain and power. IMHO
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby MikiSJ » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:15 pm

MorganWoolf wrote:Depending on your definition of "god" the sun would be a god. If the sun ceased to exist, so would we and there's nothing we could do about it.

It's not??

If the Sun never existed, neither would we!

I wonder why we don't have to spell S-n and give tithing to the S-n? Oh, I know! It is because there is no longer anything magical about the existence of the Sun and we don't have to create an industry around the Sun obviating the need for priests and temples and books and other shit.

Funny what happens to magical things when the curtain is pulled back. In the case of the Sun, we found out it is simply a gigantic ball of hydrogen converting itself into helium, lithium, beryllium, boron, oxygen, carbon and iron and other stuff - not by magic, but by physical laws that do not rely upon the tales of genesis.
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby MikiSJ » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:17 pm

Emma2Sprt wrote:Personally, I'm not so sure that Religion is nothing more than a "group" that seeks to subvert free will and prey on the weak minded for nothing more than personal gain and power. IMHO

No homework for you tonight!
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby Demon » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:09 pm

Atheists and religions disagree with me, because I just can't put down the supernatural. I believe god either doesn't exist/exists but is evil, but supernatural things are real.

Maybe I am a real demon, because I just can't sit in church without feeling uncomfortable and my body starts shaking a little as well.
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby Lucy-chan » Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:18 pm

Demon wrote:Atheists and religions disagree with me, because I just can't put down the supernatural. I believe god either doesn't exist/exists but is evil, but supernatural things are real.

Maybe I am a real demon, because I just can't sit in church without feeling uncomfortable and my body starts shaking a little as well.


As i child i Always found churches a little unsettling. There was something about stain glass windows, and pictures of Christ that i found creepy....
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby Emma2Sprt » Sun Aug 20, 2017 4:18 pm

MikiSJ wrote:No homework for you tonight!


Funny thing about that, Miki. As my Girlfriend, Skippy 2.0, will attest. I am a very deep thinker. The two of us have had some REALLY interesting conversations about philosophy, religion, and other subjects put into real world context and fictional settings.

What I posed above are things I have thought about off and on for many many years.
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby mitzidog » Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:30 am

Lucy-chan wrote: There was something about stain glass windows, and pictures of Christ that i found creepy....


That's a shame - I am learning to make stained glass panels. Most of mine are based on album covers rather than pictures of Jesus though.
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby Freak1225 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:36 am

I was heavily in the church for a long time. I'm talking full on bible thumper. When I finally opened my eyes I started doing a lot of research. Who knew that the thing I was taught was the ultimate truth turned out to not hold weight with science and reason. I still consider myself a spiritually driven person but I no longer can believe in any organized religion. It just doesn't add up.
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby Lucy-chan » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:26 pm

mitzidog wrote:
Lucy-chan wrote: There was something about stain glass windows, and pictures of Christ that i found creepy....


That's a shame - I am learning to make stained glass panels. Most of mine are based on album covers rather than pictures of Jesus though.


When it comes to Christianity i have always been naturally skeptical.

I remember as a kid at school. Someone brought heaven, my question was how could the people in the bible know that heaven exists, unless someone had been their and come back?

I didn't realize people would take it as a matter of faith.... I assumed they'd want the same kind of scrutiny that a scientist would have before they put it down in the bible.
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby CeliaEriksson » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:36 am

I was brought up in a thoroughly devout home, not overly so, but I'd attend Sunday school and Church every week. I was always a little scared of God and what he thought of me if I was naughty and that and still do a little.

To tell the truth, I still believe in going somewhere when we die, but although I still call it heaven in my mind, I know it would be somewhere that those of all faiths transcend to, rather than just a Christian place. Hence my adherence to the faith of the Church of His Noodleness.

I cannot believe that whilst massive thingys are whizzing around the universe, our being born into the midst of it is for nothing. For the universe is finite so it can't be just for procreation, passing on our genes, for those genes to be certain to be lost in the Great Nothingness of Evermore. For why? For nobody will be around when the universe ends. What would be the point?
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby Bea » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:20 am

A point is a human construct.
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby nexyjo » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:06 am

Bea wrote:A point is a human construct.


As is religion.
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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby tsukiyoarts » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:28 am

Demon wrote:I was at church one day and they start talking about a 50 year old virgin. I started listening and discerned that it was a female they were talking about. What they said about her was bone-chilling. They were saying that she deserved to be alone and a virgin because she desired a man more than she desired jesus. They said she needs to give her life to Jesus and not try to get a man.

Now, a girl had recently dumped me about a week earlier, so I was in my hateful mode towards women at that time. But even I had compassion and felt sorry for that woman. The women talking about her deeply creeped me out and gave me bad vibes. I said how dare those hypocrits, they all are married and have men, but how dare they say that woman is not allowed to have a man. it was horrifying like some kind of creepy religious cult in a movie. after that day on i stopped going to church. christians scare me.


Good afternoon,

I mostly agree with you, as I ceased to go to church even as a child, later, I ceased to be religious. That being said, not all of them are that way. Yet, I do not think religion truly benefit mankind, being good to others (when they deserve only) do not require that.

I will give one of my personal cases: I had an evangelic good friend. As soon as I said I wanted to transition to woman, he said: "You must be very confused right now to think you are such a thing, come with me to the church, we can help you". But at their book, it is said Jesus walked among the rejected, considering them more worthy than the rich ones at the temple; and it mostly talks about comprehension. Hypocrisy in my opinion, a common human mistake. Yet again, he also told me before "Sadly, some nice people will go to hell when they die, because of their beliefs" (his beliefs), even with me having respected his broken view of world and comforted him at some bad times before. But what I saw was: at the moment he needed most, who gave him the most support was his evangelic church in the beginning, but at a price: his own freewill.

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Re: a chilling tale of controlling christians

Postby Lucy-chan » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:41 pm

To believe in adam and eve, is to believe god took some male DNA and used it to make a woman....
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